[On-screen text: Celebrating IDAHOBIT]
[Master of Ceremonies James Leckie stands at a podium, wearing a white shirt and glasses. Behind him are Victoria Legal Aid banners and rainbow bunting.]
James: Welcome everybody and thank you for joining us here today on International Day against Homophobia, Biphobia, Interphobia and Transphobia. IDAHOBIT. Whether you are here with us in the room on level 12 or joining us online, we're very pleased to have your company. My name is James Leckie. I'm a lawyer here in the Internal legal services team at VLA and the Co-chair of the PRIDE Network and I'll be your MC this afternoon. May I extend a special hello to our external guests Izzy Lyndon James from the Federation of Community Legal Centres and Wurundjeri Elder, Uncle Tony Garvey and all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people joining us here today. Can I invite Uncle Tony to deliver the Welcome to Country?
[Uncle Tony wears a long sleeve black tee underneath an Aboriginal motif tee, with the Aboriginal flag on it.]
Uncle Tony: First of all, I'd just like to say it's very important that we come here and we do these Welcome to Countrys because it's all about keeping our culture going. We nearly lost our culture in 230 odd years after 60,000. So you know, it's very important that we keep this going. First of all I'd just like to say I'm very proud and honoured to be here, representing my people. The Wurundjeri Woi Wurrung people from Coranderrk. I still live on the mission out there today, which was closed in the early 1900s. My great grandmother was the last to die out there two days before the mission was closed. She died of anger and sadness I suppose, and my great grandfather, Robert Wandin, was the last Ngurungaeta. So Ngurungaeta means the last head tribesman living on the land and my uncle was the last born at Coranderrk. So we are the main trunk of the tree. And yeah we want to keep it going. I'll kick off with saying Wominjeka to everyone, so Wominjeka in Wurundjeri Woi Wurrung language means welcome so welcome to Indigenous and non-Indigenous people here today. The Wurundjeri people are also a part of the Kulin Nations. So Kulin means man. So in the Kulin Nation there were the five language groups. There was the Wathaurong to the West, the Coorong who were the westerly neighbours to the Wathaurong, Taungurung to the North East, Boonwurrung to the South West and the Woi Wurrung of the Wurundjeri territory that we stand on here today. Wurundjeri lies of inner cities of Melbourne. It extends from the mountains of the Great Dividing Range, south to the Yarra River, west to the Werribee River and east to Mt Baw Baw. The Wurundjeri people, they have a social totem. It is Bunjil the eagle. Bunjil represent spiritual powers throughout many parts of Australia. Bunjil taught all the laws about life, behaviour and ceremonies to make sure that our culture would continue for all walks of life throughout Australia. Bunjil is referred to as the creator of mankind. Bunjil created great people from the land. That is why we call the land our mother or the mother of creation. Never can land be taken away. The land will always belong to Aboriginal people as we are part of the land and the land is part of us. Our story is similar to the European people. Theirs is by their chosen faith, ours is by the Dreamtime. We both have creators and beliefs, and ours is Bunjil. It is a traditional custom of the Australian Aboriginal communities to be asked and to give permission for people to enter their land. And today you have now joined with me to honour the spirits of my ancestors, past, present, and emerging. Who have nurtured this land for over 60,000 years and we as the custodians of the land offer our hearty Welcome to the land and hope that together as citizens of this beautiful country we can build, develop and unite stronger nations for all people. And I'll just close in my Woi Wurrung language which is wominjeka wandoon Wurundjeri balluk yeamenn koondee bik, which means you're most welcome to the land of the Wurundjeri people. Once again thank you very much. It's important for our future. Cheers.
James: Thanks Uncle Tony. It's really wonderful to be present for a Welcome to Country after so many online events after such a long time. So we really hope to have you back in the future. Thank you. Just a little housekeeping before I introduce our first speaker. Today's event is a hybrid event. Just to note, we are expecting up to a couple of hundred people streaming with us at the moment. For those at home, please feel free to send through your comments and your questions, and we'll queue these up for a Q&A session later on today. On behalf of the PRIDE network, I'm honoured to be your host today, and I'd like to thank the work of all Pride Network members, past and current, for their peer support and advocacy of LGBTQ+ colleagues over many years. Can I thank everyone for their contributions and I especially want to highlight the recent and very, very important work of our transgender diverse staff. IDAHOBIT has been marked around the world on 17 May since 2004. It commemorates the day in 1990 that the World Health Organization decided to remove homosexuality from the classification of diseases and related health problems. For many people here at VLA, it's only well within our lifetimes that being who we are stopped being a mental health condition, something that needed treatment or reprogramming because there was something about us that made us wrong or inherently faulty. Still in Australia, 75% of LGBTQ plus youth will experience discrimination and 77% of trans and gender diverse people report being discriminated against in the past 12 months. You don't need to look much further than our current election campaigns or appreciate that transphobia in particular is a daily, very painful reality for many people. Being with us today is very important, but I encourage everyone to advocate for change to call out homophobia, biphobia and transphobia. Whether it's a policy here at VLA or the way somebody is being treated. To advocate for an equal workplace and for an equal community. To talk to us about diversity and inclusion and this journey at VLA, I'd now like to introduce Cameron Hume.
[Cameron is wearing black glasses, a white business shirt and suit, and addresses the room from the podium.]
Cameron: Thank you James for that introduction. I would also like to acknowledge that we're meeting today on the unceded lands of the Wurundjeri people and pay my respects to Elders past, present, and emerging. I also acknowledge First Nations staff and guests with us today. I also want to pay a tribute to Uncle Tony's acknowledgement as well and just acknowledge the sacred land on which we're all gathered. We're very privileged to be joined by a panel later today, which I'm looking forward to, but also our keynote speaker Michelle and we had a meeting a couple of, earlier this week. I think it was a late last week and one of the things we spoke about to make the most of today is ensuring that we're creating a brave space and a safe space, and that for people to express their views or their questions in a way that's comfortable for them and using their own words. So as we get to the discussion, I do very much encourage people to bring that lens.
So for those of you who don't know me, my name is Cam Hume. I'm the chief operating officer. I'm pleased to be able to say that we've had a long history of celebrating IDAHOBIT here at VLA. We've marked the day as an organisation for many years in acknowledgement and celebration of our LGBTIQ+ colleagues, friends and family, but also our wider community. It's fantastic to see so many of you joining us today, which I think is a testament to the value we place on equality, both individually but as an organisation. I wanted to run you through some of the work we've been doing to improve diversity and inclusion at VLA and some of the important lessons we've learned just recently. As part of the development of our Gender Equality Action Plan or pronounced 'Jeep'. We launched our first GEAP 2 weeks ago. It's an important piece of work for many reasons, but it also was the vehicle that identified some of our weaknesses and our systems and our workplace culture. As part of the GEAP we were required to conduct a workplace gender audit which asked staff to state their gender through our HR system. What we found was a different result compared to an anonymous staff survey that we've done previously. According to our HR system, VLA's workforce had 76% of staff identifying as women, 24% identifying as men. There were no staff identifying as non-binary at the time. Compare this to our recent GDI survey that indicated 17% of staff identified in April 2021 as LGBTQI+ or around 88 staff, and that's likely to be underreported. 0.8% or four people identified as transgender diverse and non-binary in our GDI survey. That contrast told us about the barriers that exist for staff, about the stigma and a fear of discrimination and about of like a trust in our systems and how that data will be accessed, stored and used. It also spoke about the challenges about the outdated nature of our system descriptors. I should note that there will be differences between our data and our core system and our survey, but we need to close the gap. Capturing improved diversity and inclusion data in our core systems is important because it tells us who our workforce is. And the better we know our staff, the better we know you. The better we can respond to staff needs. It's clear we've got some work to do in terms of building confidence in our systems and trust in the organization. That's why we're doing the work as outlined in our inclusion framework and all the associated plans within it, and I'll run through some of that shortly.
The GEAP also highlighted how important it us it is for us to listen, and I'd like to take this opportunity to commend our transgender diverse and nonbinary staff whose contributions opened our eyes and changed the GEAP for the better. Thank you for being courageous. During GEAP consultations, we heard that trans and gender diverse staff felt they were not being formally recognised in our reporting data and this caused them harm and distress. I know that I and the rest of the executive team wish to express our regret and apologies for not identifying this error. Earlier, we've sought to fix that. You will see in the GEAP and in our workforce data published on International Women's Day that the gender breakdown of our workforce includes a category for gender diverse staff. This is a welcome and overdue change and one that will remain a feature of our future reporting. It's also an important first step towards greater visibility and recognition. We're also engaging with the Victorian Commissioner of Gender Equality to explore collective advocacy to change the payroll system. Gender descriptors which are based on outdated 2015 sex Discrimination Act guidelines connected to our tax and superannuation systems. And we'd also like to discuss a more expansive definition of gender in the Gender Equality Act. I spoke about trust earlier. It's wise an organization where keep aiming to highlight actions and that we are listening. The GEAP is just one element of our broader inclusion framework. It also includes our disability action plan, the reconciliation plan, and the cultural diversity and antiracism plans work in these plans has a workforce system and client focus to bring about organizational and service delivery changes, but also changes in the justice system. They require us to be accountable and provide regular updates on our progress. We know plans need follow through. Our anonymous GDI survey found that 38% of LGBTQ plus staff who responded felt that reporting, discrimination, harassment, and racism could affect their career prospects or felt they would not be believed. This is why we are also improving our reporting model and response framework to sexual harassment, bullying, discrimination, and taking an active in zero tolerance stance. Particularly when this occurs in external work locations. Through our GEAP, we are providing more opportunities for leadership training and development to support more women and trans and gender diverse staff as well as women of diverse backgrounds to senior management and executive roles. Importantly, to support this work, we're expanding our capability by recruiting a new senior diversity and inclusion leadership position and an additional consultant role to support our client services. This will ensure we have a dedicated focus on our long-term plans and goals.
I recognise I stand here as a white privileged man without the lived experience of the discrimination and barriers that many face. I've learned a lot during the GEAP process and the lived experience of our staff about listening and the importance of being heard about not jumping straight to solutions nor feeling like you have the answer straight away. So while there is more work to do, I'm proud to be on this journey on behalf of the executive team and many others in leadership roles in VLA, I'm continuing to learn and educate myself. I also have an obligation to not be a bystander. Call out discrimination, no matter how casual it may seem, we all do. I've just updated my details in the new diversity and inclusion section of our employee service system. Whilst it's voluntary, I encourage you to do that too. The data is kept secure and reporting of the data is deidentified. I'm heartened by the response to events like these that celebrate who we are and what matters to us. Today by showing our solidarity for LGBTQ+ colleagues and friends, we're building a stronger foundation for not only a truly equal and respectful workplace, but one where everyone feels included and I hope to see you again next year. Thank you.
James: Now I'd like to welcome four of our colleagues to speak: Charis, Sophie, Zara and Kieran to share some of their personal insights.
[Four panellists sit at a long desk at the front of the room, facing the audience. Sophie is wearing a black skivvy, next to them is Charis, wearing a chequered suit jacket with a white shirt and gold chain, next to them is Kieran, who is wearing a white shirt, blue tie and blue suit jacket and Zara I wearing a white pleated shirt with black bolero tie. They are using handheld mics when speaking.]
Kieran: We'll just go around and introduce ourselves first. My name is Kieran, my pronouns are they/them.
Zara: I'm Zara, I use they/them pronouns.
Charis: I am Charis. I'm a proud Gomeroi person and I use they/them pronouns.
Sophie: Hi, I'm Sophie and I use she/they pronouns. Thank you.
Zara: Sorry, this is a bit funny because we want it to be a bit more of a conversation and a bit more flowing. But before we kind of kick off, I just want to acknowledge that we're four people here today, but there is actually a lot of trans and gender diverse staff at VLA that aren't up here, so please don't be under the misapprehension that we're the only people. It's just that, yeah, this is what we've come today to talk to you, and we just also want to acknowledge that there's been trans and gender. Diverse staff that have worked at legal aid prior to now that are no longer here but have kind of paved some of the roads that have led. So today, so we just want to acknowledge that.
Kieran: So I'd just like to start by couching our conversation a little bit, so one of the hardest parts, the most challenging parts about being trans and gender diverse, is that you experience something incredibly private, very private journey in a really public way. And especially when you exist in a or, you work in a conservative profession like the law, those challenges are certainly heightened. And you know as many of my colleagues here will contest, will attest to, that ranges from contending with conservative environments like the courts, dealing with clients and ensuring that your pronouns are respected, your name is used and then also looking around and not often seeing other trans and gender diverse lawyers or even not having access to those that mentorship in the profession. Sometimes it really makes you feel like you're the first person going through it and you're you feel sometimes quite alone and so today we, the four of us are really excited and very proud to be announcing a trans and gender diverse network at Victoria Legal Aid. And today we're going to be talking to you a bit about what that involves and what the goals are. So to start off with, I'm going to ask a question to everybody, which is: why do we need a trans and gender diverse network at VLA?
Charis: I think yeah maybe I'll start answering it this question so there is and I think first I would like to address why this isn't coming within Pride. I think you know we're the T in LGBT and it might to some people they might see that as coming under the same banner, but the need for the two separate networks and the trans and gender diverse network is because our staff networks are centred on lived experience and queerness and gender identity, while very often overlapping, and they have very separate parts of your identity and your lived experience can be completely different. We were discussing earlier that there is lots of trans people that are heterosexual and there's lots of lots of people who are queer who are cis and so to have everything all in one isn't giving enough time for the voices of individuals and their own experience to be heard. And so the network is really here to emphasise the need for a safe space for transgender diverse staff, and to really emphasise our lived experience. And magnify our voices.
Sophie: Yeah definitely. I'd just like to yeah, really agree with what Charis said. I think it's important to to focus on the fact that without a lived experience you might not always be picking up on certain things and that's why, for example, with the GEAP it might have been that things had been missed in the consulting phase because we didn't have a specific network to come and speak to about things. And we can look back and learn from that as a lesson and then yeah, move forward and have this ability to be consulted and have more inclusion.
Kieran: So the next question to kind of put to everyone is what are the overall goals for our for our trans and gender diverse network and I think at this point I'd like to give a shout out to the Victorian Public Service and the trans and gender diverse people working there who have established this incredible network of their own called GenSHED. And it supports trans, gender diverse and intersex colleagues there. It's also open to VLA employees, so I'd encourage you to go and take a look at what that is about, but that the structure that they have created there has really inspired us to create our own and so I thank them for their work and bravery. And so yeah, the overall goals of the network, I think, as we've all spoken about the importance of peer support, the importance of being able to visibly connect visibly, see and connect with your colleagues who have the same lived experience as you and that and that's and that's critical in a place like the law where it's not always a safe environment to be, to be out or to identify openly and to have those, sometimes private streams of communication between people are critical.
Sophie: I was just going to add into what Kieran said, and in terms of the goals for the network. We've spoken together about the importance of having resources that we can also have a centralised place for. In the past we've had, I would say an informal support network and it's been because we've been able to connect with each other and then talk about things, but I think that it's really important that there might be people that like have yeah, as as we've said, haven't identified and might not know where to go, but for us to have a centralized place to provide resources. I'm skipping ahead a bit in our in our talking points, but in terms of things like for example, if there was a staff member who wanted to know where they could go to for resources to talk to their manager about their preferred pronouns, their name, and how they could talk even in terms of support with transitioning, but also more broadly how they would like to be engaged with in the workforce, we want to be able to have resources that we can just say this is what we have. This is an email that you can send and the work is done, so it's not just supervision or what. What sort of happens to be the structure in the team at that point in time and and that might be really different according to what team you're in. So we want to have somewhere that people can go to and say OK, what can I give back and and feed through to the management.
Charis: I think also bouncing off what Sophie has said, it's really important to have resources in place and for ways to react when someone does come out to the team rather than bombarding them with questions or completely overwhelming them with wow you're so brave you're so strong and things like that sometimes you just want to be gendered correctly and just exist as a human and so one of the reasons that we can have isa protocol on how to respond and where to get that information so you're not using that person as your own Personal Google for all questions, trans and gender diverse and and this is so important in fostering a safe environment for people to also be encouraged and feel like they can disclose their gender at VLA because there's it will take away that risk of just complete emotional exhaustion and having to do all of that labour. And also just it's like cotton wool to protect people and also encourage them to be able to to take that step and and the resources are also so helpful for when we engage with other stakeholders like the courts and the hospitals. There's ways of navigating those systems without having to out yourself every time you appear and go through that whole process of explaining. There’s ways of navigating that in the most. Non disruptive way possible and doing it once for yourself so you’re not having to repeat and go through that exhaustion over and over again, which can be so overwhelming that sometimes you just, it’s easier just to be misgendered and you just nod and then cry when you get home. So I think maybe Zara would like to speak.
Zara: Yeah, something that you were I was reminding reminded me of when you were talking was just how exhausting it is cumulatively to be in outreach locations and constantly misgendered. And for the response to be from colleagues who are obviously well, very well meaning and care. Oh that's a shame. But you know, like you know, does it really matter or yeah? And and I think to have a network, what I'm really excited about to have a specific trans and gender versus network is to go to a bunch of peers who are going to take these concerns really seriously and recognise they're like impact that that has on my ability to feel safe when I do my job. And yeah, I think it's really important and I think something that I've reflected on a lot is and I know this sounds like a really intense statement, but I think even having networks like this is part of like suicide prevention. More broadly, like I think there is, we have like the chance of gender diverse like suicide statistics and mental health outcomes are so shocking and so poor, and I think it it isn't an overstatement to me to say to have something like this is such a vital like mental health resource for staff as well and and just to kind of keep us connected and able to do our jobs really effectively. Yeah, that's what I'm really excited for.
Sophie: Same thing as Zara said, it's structure that is validating. Yeah, and it's structure that is then providing a place for people to say ohh OK,I can look at this and I can see that it's being facilitated. It's something that I can go to and it's yeah it, it's actually creating something that people can then look at and use.
Charis: It also really warms my heart that once we have structure like this and networks like this, young lawyers that are coming through, they're going to have the mentors that we never had. They're going to be able to look up and see someone who's successful and themselves and doing amazingly and we never got the chance to say, this person is me all just like me and relate to them and go to them with questions of how did you deal with this situation. And so it feels really amazing to be able to to start something that can then be passed on and create safety for young lawyers coming through because it's such a tough time and just itself as well as navigating the cis world so it really is nice, like Zara was saying, with the mental health and also encouraging more transgender diverse lawyers. More people in the profession to stick around and to continue on. We are creating a space where that's going to be encouraged and hopefully we see more and more in the future.
Zara: Mike drop.
Kieran: Yeah yeah, well that yeah, that's that that I think that's a great note to end on and we have to end, so that's good. Thank you.
James: It's now my great pleasure to introduce our guest speaker for the day, Mama Mish as she is known to her radio audience, is a well-known voice on transgender issues and advocacy and a regular on the public speaking circuit, which she juggles with her consultancy work. Currently an advisor senior advisor in LGBTQ+ programs at the Department of Transport, she has worked with Tennis Australia, the Western Bulldogs and also starred in Yarra Trams’ All Aboard campaign last year, celebrating diversity in the Naarm community. She's been celebrated for her work on Joy FM, contributing to numerous shows such as transpositions and Family Matters. One of Joy's most listened to programs.
Michelle: New one on the way too.
James: So good, so good. I am very privileged, I feel very privileged to have you here with us on such an important day and I'm delighted to introduce Michelle Shepherd.
[Michelle stands before the podium, dressed in a black and white blouse with a black suit jacket, a blue lanyard around her neck and glasses sitting on her head.]
Michelle: Warning you now, I'm actually a very loud person you don't even crank that up too high. Let me be honest, to follow up the act like I just had here what, everyone seriously, awesome. Before I continue on to make sure I acknowledge the Traditional Owners of our lands that we're meeting on today and recognize the Traditional Owners of the lands and waters which we're meeting today. I myself Michelle Sheppard. I'm a transgender woman. My pronouns are she and her. And as a trans woman and as an advocate in this space as well, I want to make sure that I take the time to acknowledge my LGBTQ+ elders as well because it's their shoulders and I'm standing upon today and the work that they have done, the the the adversity they have faced over the years without them. I would not be standing here today. These four colleagues of yours would not be standing up there as well today and finding the bravery themselves to be leading change within a space such as this. If you have not had the chance to do it. I am giving you homework to go to the NGV and go to the Queer Expo. And I myself as a leader within this space as a parent, as a changemaker myself, you know, to walk through those halls and see the years, the decades, the millennia, the centuries of issues facing the wider queer community as a whole. It is sobering to think that within my own lifetime that I may not see the change that is needed to be made for my community and the equality that I so desire. I may not taste that. So me walking through feeling that. And then walking away going. Wow, I need you all to feel that as well too OK. You know it's interesting coming to every different organisation I go to is spoken in so many different industries and you know everything from the top of AFL down to construction. To here. I'm in the legal aid space and banking and insurance and. I tell you what it's funny, over the last, almost nine years of doing this, I go to conferences every year and there's probably 3 conferences every year. On top of those those years that I do it. I don't see a wide variety of diversity in those spaces you look at D&I, and we always focus on D&I, D&I, and the person who's running HR department.is usually person who gets lumped with doing the D&I portfolios. We show up. We start looking for the buzzwords we go. OK, I don't know what to do because I've been given this, so I need to go and actually like find out what I need to be doing and the people running this. There is just that lack of diversity, lack of understanding, lack of lived experience and usually I show up and I'm usually people going …
[Michelle leaves the podium and approaches someone in the audience as if meeting them for the first time.]
Michelle: Oh my God, hi, you're the newest and coolest thing I've ever met. Can you sit with me and talk with me because in 20 years I've met anyone like you. I need to talk to you. Everybody I meet talks about we're on a journey we're starting our journey. So please understand that you here actually are at the same footing as most organisations that are out there. To listen to your chief operating officer to come up here as well and talk the way he has it goes to show that there is an acknowledgement and understanding of a need for change. Gender Equality action plan. Most places I go to be here, at most time most the time, it's usually run by a cisgender heterosexual woman who's Caucasian and they're talking about the gender pay gap. You ask them they don't know anything further and I go well, have you thought about maybe some of the gender minorities and they're like, well, what do you mean? Well, let me have a coffee with you and have a chat and talk about how we can make talk about this conversation. So it's not just you, it's everybody else.
Now, one of the things I definitely am applauding you on is, you know, talking about LGBTQ+. Now, let me be honest, that acronym is a pain in the ass and everybody, including the people within their community and side outside the community, struggle with that acronym and they can't get on top of it. And The thing is, I need to understand is that this isn't a wider gay community, right? This is a community of communities. I never was a gay man. I lived as a heterosexual, presenting individual who had the 2.5 picket fence. I had the dog, well, it was like 2 1/2 dogs, but one was what I have is a bit of half wit. But the two kids, the wife, the whole thing right and I when I came out I was dealing with my own issues around divorce around. Trying to find my place within my own industry. I worked within IT for 20 years. I was a traveling technician fixing servers, wiring petrol pumps, traveling all over Australia, fixing laptops. Printers and cop shops. Everything I've touched all kinds of different technology, but the problem was is when I came out I actually it taken a small career break and I thought 20 years I just need to take a break. I was working at one of the top four accounting firms here in Melbourne and there just really wasn't support. We saw LGBT when you looked online. There was like a locked area to go into. You had to find permission to go to someone and the problem is as a transgender person to find somebody else like you, it's very difficult. And I myself even to this day going on nine years later of doing this. I suffer often from only-ness. Only-less does lead to loneliness, but when you're walking around trying to find other people like yourself, it is very difficult to be very lonely and you feel very isolated. So we talk about D&I diversity inclusion. We always throw the E in there talking about equity now with people who actually understand the idea of equity, you really your end result is equality, but you want to create equity spaces, equalitable spaces, achieve equality within the workplace. But one we never talk about as belonging. What are we doing to make people feel belong and that they feel like they belong within an organization? We create spaces for them to find other people like themselves somewhere to gravitate somewhere, to feel safe. Often we don't. We don't realise that we just think, well, we got the we've got a social group thing. We got a social thing when drinks on that never Thursday whatever. But not everyone feels safe to come to. Many of those particular situations.
I found that I took a small career break and I went in and started doing lash extensions and makeup artistry. Now I briefly years before I took a small course in that ladies and gentlemen, if you want last extensions or make-up tips, let me know. I can give you some advice on some of the great places to go and what to look for, but I found actually was funny that industry actually was quite transphobic. Friend of mine actually was running the business I was working at and I needed to find something new. So I decided to go back into my own industry. And every door kept going to be slammed in my face. Three months I had taken a break. And I had recruiters saying things to me like, well, you’ve been away from the industry for three months. Your skills are no longer valid. You need to re-skill before you can come back in. Like I don't have time for that and actually the employment going forward. Sorry being trans is no longer is not a cultural fit within this organization. You need to either stop doing what you're doing. We can see what's going on. People are following me and checking me out on social media and I found that the door is being shut in my face. Two daughters I have 16 and 13,the absolute gems of my world and they continue driving me and making me laugh constantly. They would say to me whatever you need to do to look after you and your two daughters, whether it's scrub toilets or stock shelves, that’s what you need to do. Only work I was being offered was cleaning airplane cabins or apartment units or anything like that, and I said this is crazy. I’ve got 20 years IBM, you know Deloitte, you know some of the really big boys out there, but no, wanted nothing to do with it as many years I’ve been to those organisations. So it wasn't until IDAHOBIT that I actually had a chance to share a bit of the boundaries and stuff I had. I was invited by Essendon Football Club to come speak to their playing group and their staff and and to the AFL itself. And it gave me a springboard that brought me into places like Joy FM to come in as a guest. And next thing you know, I took over the entire show became the producer, the presenter, and we were getting nominated constantly for different awards, for it was great, but one of things I always found challenging is how do you diversify the voice? No different than we do with most organisations. When we look at LGBTQ plus as well.
Because we look at most organisations, we look at as a pride groups a social space and most organisations lean heavily onto that particular group and they want to look for answers because they don't know how to look for it themselves. Sometimes we can be a barrier. I get it. We can kind of push back and be a bit aggressive sometimes, but because we're tired. Because we're constantly asked, we’re burden is put on us constantly around these things, but you have to understand also the lived experience outside the workplace, many of us like myself. I am. How old am I? Let me see. I have to think about it so I'm almost 45 and. To be told by my mother. At my age that I'm no longer wanted because I'm transgender. You immediately shrink down to a young child and your heart constantly hurts. To go through divorce and be told I can’t go to visit my children's school and see my children on parents day or drop them off at school or. Come to the different events or the sporting events or the graduation events because I'm transgender and it will upset the families and my kids. So I was very restricted within my life within my family. Going through divorce. All those things I was very cut off. While trying to rebuild my career and push myself out there. I would jumping on trains, trying to rebuild, and have the conversations and find my brave to be honest, before I transitioned, I was no way in hell I'd stand up here in front of you like this. And we tell you what the four people that just came up here and did this as well. That takes a lot of brave, OK. Especially putting yourself under a microscope, making yourself very visible. It’s very difficult and to be honest, I hate doing this. Because I have to put myself under a microscope, I have to make myself very visible. But the thing is, if I don't, if I don't take the brunt of it and try to be there invisible and try to make the change OK, then these young four people will have to go and do it themselves and walk away from the industry they're into go and actually fight for change.
There are young people younger than them who are actually saying I can’t see transgender women out there who are actually making a difference. I can't see the lawyers. I can't see the doctors. I can't see the people out there. They see people who are barely surviving. No one is thriving as parents who reach out to me and talk to me. Go Michelle. What am I going to do when it comes to my children? I have transgender women who constantly come to me and we ‘relooking at a 20% unemployment rate when it comes to transgender women. And saying, Mama, can you help me? I can't find work, I'm unemployed, I’m just I'm missing my children. I’m going through divorce. I’ve got to find a place to live. I’m sleeping on someone's couch. What do I do? There’s no support, so you can imagine the legal issues that many of our community might be dealing with, especially around identity or children whose parents are divorced and the other one parent does not allow the other parent to go and help them with their transition issues. Uhm? To be here and actually be an example like this and try to breakdown those barriers and help you understand that each of those D&I portfolios. We talked about this disability, Aboriginal issues, CALD issues. Women's issues all those we don't want to silo those anymore and understand that each of those different categories there. There are LGBT people, LGBTQ+ people spread across the entire spectrum of that. So like we discovered within the, the GEAP policies we're working on, we realize that there are people within there that aren't just cisgender, caucasian women who are in this space. And if we have women’s issues and women's spaces, are we looking across the lens and saying where are all of the women at from all the different backgrounds that are here? So I really applaud the fact that you’re separating the gender diverse and the sexually diverse components of part of the the the the thing because The thing is is is there are so many times run across gay and lesbian people who actually say to me I don't understand. Because they don't understand the lived experience of gender, diverse people, or trenched into people. It’s a totally different conversation. So allowing that space to be created allowing that space to grow and become a voice for that particular community and be seen is absolutely amazing.
So I challenge organizations to really think about these things. Don’t be just silo-ing and putting your D&I issues on your HR or people and culture team. Find people who have lived experience. Have them help you build that as well. D and I, DEI or DEIB and I challenge you say DEIB going forward is. Something that is a must have, not a nice to have because when you have that stuff in place then you’re not caught off guard when it comes to things like your GEAP when it comes to creating programs. And I'm reaching out to the four of you now, and the things that you're working on. And there are things that I have actually developed around gender equality. Action plans are naturally gender affirmation. I'm sorry. Been doing this five times today to be honest. Gender affirmation plans and policies that I've developed for the VPS and there's been used across many other places like ANZ and across the transport industry. And you are more than welcome to use those as much as you want to create whatever you need within this space. We do not need to recreate the wheel, but we need to do is actually go. And support one another. And provide the material there takes the burden off one another so we can just get the job done. So help me go and see change within my lifetime. As a parent and as a leader in this space. All right? And I'm asking all of you to support them as well. There’s many others out there. Many of us leave organizations because we don't feel supported. We don't feel we belong.
There are times I go to work over the last eight years where I've been spat on. I’ve been shoved. I've been out and my children had to watch me and get called out on public transport. I was at Melbourne Central Station, boarding a tram I went to look at that stupid spaghetti map. We all hate those stupid spaghetti maps, I can't figure where the hell I'm going on that thing and a gentleman stopped me and he shoved me down. I was in heels and my laptop bag and ended up on my back and the man spat in my face. And he basically made it clear to me that he was very straight, and was interested in women. And if I wanted what he thought I was looking for, then go to the toilets for that. I had to scurry myself onto a tram and moved myself home really quick. I’m if you often see me on the train you see, with earbuds in the air pods, normally time you've got them amplified so we can hear the room because I'm usually focused on safety. I’m a 6’3 human being and I’m a big unit, but I'll tell you what. I am scared to death half the time how people going to treat me? The stats are phenomenal. Each year on transgender Day of remembrance, we highlight those who identify as transgender gender diverse and non-binary who've been taken from us every year since 2008,we had 4042 people who have been murdered because they are transgender.96% of those are transfems or trans women that we know of. In the United States, there’s a larger portion of people of colour who were taken from us there. But The thing is, is you have to understand that just last year was 375 the year before was 350 the year before that was 331.The numbers are going to arise because of what we're seeing within the news. That’s happening right now that people believe that they can take and attack us upon their own back and take action to attack us. The end of the day, I'm just a queer woman. I’ve got a different lived experiences. Many of the people I'm a single parent. I pay my taxes and my mortgage like anybody else in this room. The thing is, we need to find better ways of creating better equality and support all of us each other as we're going. So I really thank you so much for having me here today and I'm so excited to see what you all are going to be doing. And I actually look forward to actually keeping in touch with each and everyone of you and watching what you do and how you support each other going forward. I’ll leave it to you for questions.
[inaudible chat between Michelle and James]
Michelle: I'll hang up here with you, how's that sound?
James: That's awesome, you can read the thanks to yourself. Thanks, Michelle. I know that you've given quite a few talks today, but we do really appreciate you coming along and talking to us. It was really powerful and stuff. Thank you so much. We're lucky to have Michelle sticking around for a little bit longer, so we will take some questions from the audience and some questions from online. All of our speakers, I understand all of our speakers are happy to take questions today. Your questions to Michelle can be in your own words. You can't ask that style. And I might ask everybody to come to the table, if that is alright.
[Michelle and all four panel members now sitting at the desk at the front of the room, with the lectern, the Aboriginal, Australian and Torres Strait Islander flags in the background behind them and rainbow bunting on the ceiling. Jasmine, an audience member with black straight hair, is asking a question.]
Jasmine: Thank you and thanks so much for everyone who presented it today. It was really fantastic and I know you guys can't see the chat online, but the support is absolutely flowing in people. We’ve got about 111 people watching online, so they're really loving that. Thank you. I just wanted to ask, particularly for you, Michelle. There’s often a criticism of organizations and particularly big corporates for taking days like this. Getting a guest speaker in or marching at pride, but what do they do? For the rest of the year, how do we make sure that days like this aren't tokenistic I guess.
Michelle: I’ll stand up in front here and talk about that. It’s a big conversation. To be honest, the reality is if you look at advocacy for the last however many decades and mind you, this whole LGBT conversation is more than since the 70s or 80s.Most people don't really understand the history of the LGBT community and the wider issue. So, for example, how many people know that the gay panic defence actually was eliminated only in South Australia in 2020? We often talk about IDAHOBIT... we can talk about the elimination of acts of homosexuality being removed from the DSM health manual, but we don't talk about the transgender gender diverse being removed. Well, the conversation started in May 2019, but we had until January of 2022to remove it from the health (manual), so we've only been free of amental health issue since probably technically January of 2022.Right, but we kind of what the problem is. The problem is with these conversations that are happening around this day. We always focus around the gay conversation. Nothing against our gay brothers or our lesbian sisters or bisexual cousins. But The thing is, is we have to understand that there are more people in this conversation than just one. As advocates, we don't care if you show up to pride marches. It’s true, really. You want to wear a rainbow lanyard? Great, you want to do some ally ship training. Awesome, but what are you doing with that? Right, it's great you're doing it. Do you understand those differences and the different nuances and the different the different identities? Are there? That language is changing? It is hard. I'm a leader in this space and I struggle with the language that's going on. Right, I really it is difficult. But The thing is, is where the space we have language it's changing. We're playing with language. When I was a child there was no transgender talk. Right, we all knew there was gay and there was bad and that's all we had and AIDs and it was oh, that was even worse. Now we we're talking about gender and understanding where this comes from. So when it comes to IDAHOBIT or even things like Wear it purple day. Or even do we know that there's a nonbinary person's day on July 14th? We probably don’t, and we need to celebrate that. Where it purple day stop with the stupid cupcakes far out man can you like? I can tell you. Many organisations have gender diverse and LGBT students who cannot see themselves. They do not have examples. Have an open day. Bring them in, connect with people, have them see the amazing queer people you have within your organisation. It’s not that we have an issue with it, it’s are you getting creative around it? Are you talking about it? Are you going on LinkedIn? Are you doing these things and saying this is what we’re doing? Bugger the haters. Who cares what they think? They just those people hate change. The thing is talk about it, live it and actually you know create the culture and make it thrive.
Jasmine: Thank you, so question for the new transgender diverse network. Congratulations on your formation. I’m wondering what we can do to support the establishment of the network as allies.
Charis: I think the first thing that came to my mind was give us time. Because. Where we what we're doing here. That's not a part of our job that’s not in our job description. This is all extra so to be able to do this work and to create these resources and have these discussions and create these safe spaces we need time to do that. And this goes out to all the managers out there in the audience today. Give us time and. prioritize this because like we have discussed, this is a health and wellbeing issue and that should be completely prioritised in our duties in the work that we do and we need time to, especially in the beginning, to build this up to get the roots in to get it all established so that it's something that can just. Continue on in the future and that's going to take time. It’s going to be hard work. It’s going to be really draining. We might need. A little bit of a moment away from the computer, it's time is what we need to support because. There’s things that allies can't do in this space, so all they can do is make it as easy for us as possible so that we can do the work we need to do.
Michelle: But I'm a throw on that as well. I’m already mic'd up, thanks. While they're establishing that and have the resources to put that together, when was last time you had LGBTIQ+ training to understand the different lived experiences and the differences between those and understanding you know, I’ve been doing work for eight years, understanding the barriers and challenges faced by gender, transgender and gender diverse people within the wider employment space. Get yourself some education you know. Have some having someone like me come in and do some wider training with your staff. Do it online. Zoom out completely on the whatever and get to yourself at least understanding the language around these things and understanding why. Instead of just sitting and doing nothing.
Charis: And also use Google, we don't know.
[Laughing.]
Zara: I was just going to say as well. I think this is a real. It’s really common to expect marginalized groups to have a perfect alternative solution before we allow them to have space. So I think also, what allies can do is allow us to be a bit messy. A bit chaotic, a bit imperfect until we figure it all out because we're actually all also figuring all our own stuff out while we're trying to do this. It’s a it's a constant. It’s a constant learning, so I think just being open and happy to sit in the mess. For a bit is sometimes the best thing that allies can do. Yeah, I don't know.
Kieran: Yeah, I would agree and I think a good example is that of that is that recently myself and Charis have just started working in the Magistrates Court. The courts are a notoriously conservative environment. And it is certainly an added layer to navigate being trans or gender diverse in that space when you have. You know prefixes used, Miss, Mister Madam Associate, Mister Associate. The binaries are endless in the courts and I think let this network and let the establishment of this network be. Yeah, be a message. But also, yeah, a message to you.to stand in solidarity with your colleagues who are working in those spaces as well. I feel really lucky to have been surrounded by amazing colleagues at VLA who have like helped me navigate how I was going to talk to court staff or even amongst us. We’ve just been those issues are live and we feel like that we're doing them. They’re making that kind of pushing out that space. Yeah, real time, so yeah.
Charis: Something that I think really made a big difference and I was speaking with Kieran about this. Sending secret notes to magistrates. It’s something that you can do, and they're fully briefed on your gender and your prefix and little. This is how you pronounce, Mx and things like that. A lot of times, because we don't have those mentors, they don't think to offer that information or they don't think to help accommodate you and make your work environment safe. We can't control our clients and that’s also something we have to struggle with everyday because it's a revolving door of our most vulnerable people in the community. So it's really hard to advocate for yourself when you're sitting in front of someone who is really, really struggling. So the least we can do is be gendered correctly by the magistrates. The court staff and our colleagues and peers. So it's this is another great benefit of the network is to be able to share the tricks of the trade and little hacks in making our life safer and easier. And so I was just reminded of that when Kieran was explaining how we navigate this scary world.
Michelle: So would you say you're at the start of your journey?
[Laughing.]
Charis: We are. We are toddling along. We're getting there.
Michelle: You have a great captain leading the ship who acknowledges all the things that need to be done and obviously a willing ear to hear those changes as well. So allow the leaders to be messy themselves while you're being messy. OK, and together you work together to steer that ship together. Make the change for others as well.
[Applause and James returns to the podium.]
James: We’ve gone overtime, but it was such a great discussion. I know, I know. You can all go. We'll all stay. Thank you to Zara, Kieran, Charis, Sophie and Michelle for being here today. It’s been a really great discussion, it’s been a really enriching discussion. I’ve certainly learned a lot and I hope that people here in the room and on the stream have as well. Let's give them another clap. Thank you very much.
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